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Episode 84: Dick Gabriel on Lisp

Host(s)

Markus

Guest(s)

Richard P. Gabriel

Recording venue

OOPSLA 2007

Web Player

 

 

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In this Episode we're talking with Dick Gabriel on Lisp. We started by looking at artificial intelligence as the historic context of Lisp, the goals AI tried to reach, and how Lisp was supposed to help reach those.

We then discussed the language itself, starting with the Data As Program / Program As Data concept that is a foundation for Lisp. Then we discussed adding a meta-circular interpreter, programming as language development, and the blurred boundary between language and frameworks (because everything uses the same syntax). We then talked about Lisp's type system and the importance of macros to extend the language.

The next section concerned CLOS, the Common Lisp Object System and its important concepts: generic functions, multimethods, mixins, and method combination. We also briefly looked at the meta-object protocol but agreed this is a topic for a separate episode. After a discussion about the various dialects of Lisp and Scheme, we concluded the Lisp discussion by explaining why Lisp did not really catch on ("AI Winter") and Lisp's role in today's industry.

We ended the episode with a couple of details about Dick's other life as a poet and his Poem a Day effort.

Make sure you listen till the end, where we have added a song about Lisp (courtesy of Prometheus Music.)

Links

 






Comments




  

      Thu, 01/24/2008 - 22:23 — stal_m
  
  
  
    
That was absolutely entertaining


    

      
Dear SE Radio team. Thanks for the interview with Dick. I was enjoying it today on my bike. It was brilliant, especially since I have reincarnated my Lisp knowledge only a few months ago. It is really impressing to hear some historical background by someone who has widely influenced the field himself. I also personally share Dick's philosophy of combing art and computer science. Maybe, this could be a special topic for SE Radio sometime in the future, couldn't it? BTW: What wasn't mentioned that he is also sometimes acting as a rock musician. Maybe, you could get some more of these exciting pioneers.


-- Michael

    


  


      

  





  

      Fri, 01/25/2008 - 11:35 — Markus
  
  
  
    
Thanks guys...


    

      
... for your comments :-)


Markus

    


  


      

  





  

      Fri, 01/25/2008 - 18:12 — qollin
  
  
  
    
John McCarthy Video-Link


    

      
Again, a very nice and interesting podcast. You make my long car drives something to look forward to :-) Do you happen to have the link to the McCarthy video mentioned in the podcast. I cannot seem to find it...


Thanx and keep up the great work!

    


  


      

  





  

      Sun, 01/27/2008 - 19:20 — jan
  
  
  
    
One of my Favorit Interviews


    

      
Hello,

a big thank you to the interviewer and the interviewee to for broadcasting this interview. It is my favorite intverview on se-radio.

Only one thing is missing - the link to the book Dick talked about: http://www.dreamsongs.com/IHE/

Please do more interviews with people that shaped the history of computer science. Looking back at history is very entertraining and relaxing in an industry that comes up with a new hype every couple of months or so.

Cheers,

Jan

    


  


      

  





  

      Mon, 01/28/2008 - 14:54 — happygiraffe
  
  
  
    
Thanks


    

      
I really enjoyed this interview.  Very interesting material, plus it was clear and loud enough for me to here on my commute. :)

    


  


      

  





  

      Mon, 01/28/2008 - 21:05 — clifft135
  
  
  
    
Episode 84 Dick Gabriel on Lisp


    

      
Hi Markus,


Great interview, even better than usual, with Dick Gabriel.


You mentioned that you were going to put in a link for the "Growing a Language" presentation by Guy Steele.  The links to the video and the transcript follow.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8860158196198824415&hl=en


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brics.dk...


Best Regards,


Cliff Thompson

    


  


      

  






  

      Mon, 01/28/2008 - 22:07 — Markus
  
  
  
    
Thanks Cliff...


    

      
... for submitting the links (and the nice words :-))


I have added the URLs to the links section of the Episode.


Markus

    


  


      

  






  

      Sun, 02/17/2008 - 09:58 — Mesirii
  
  
  
    
Great Episode, Thank you


    

      
I absolutely have to agree with my fellow commentators. This episode was great. Having listened to the OOPSLA performance of Guy and Dick before I had high expectations which were fully met.

Having you talk about the features lisp had then in these pioneer ages, which were almost forgotten in between and only recently rediscovered reminded me on the dark age of sciene in the middle ages.

I programmed some emacs lisp back then and found it very convenient. But I think I'll take a try with scheme. Any suggestion for introductory material on that?


I'd also vote for more interviews with this kind of guys who shaped the landscape we're living in today. Perhaps you can record some interviews at qcon as many of the influential people are there.


Michael Hunger

Independend Software Developer

Java embedded SQL DSL - http://jequel.de

    


  


      

  





  

      Mon, 02/18/2008 - 08:58 — ademelt
  
  
  
    
Great Episode!


    

      
One of the best so far!


As suggested by other commenters, I would also like to hear more interviews with those people who shaped the world of computer science over the past decades.


Cheers,

 Achim

    


  


      

  





  

      Fri, 02/22/2008 - 01:45 — Elena
  
  
  
    
Fantastic interview


    

      
How fascinating to hear Dick Gabriel put Lisp, AI, and programming into historical perspective.  Great stuff.  His description of the creative process was very interesting also.  Thanks for another quality podcast.

    


  


      

  





  

      Mon, 04/07/2008 - 15:43 — japonophile
  
  
  
    
Excellent


    

      
Thank you for this podcast, I enjoyed it a lot.  I like the parallel between software engineering and poetry.  We, software engineers, are scientists, but we are also creative people.

    


  


      

  





  

      Sat, 07/05/2008 - 16:20 — clifft135
  
  
  
    
Is there a quess on when this Presentation will be Transcribed?


    

      
Hi,


Since there is a lot of excellent material on Lisp in this interview,  do you have an approximate time when  this interview may be transcribed?


Best Regards,


Cliff Thompson

    


  


      

  






  

      Sun, 07/06/2008 - 10:42 — Markus
  
  
  
    
Very soon :)


    

      
Please check back in a couple of days.

    


  


      

  






  

      Wed, 07/16/2008 - 21:16 — clifft135
  
  
  
    
Transcript of Gabriel Interviews


    

      
Hi Marcus, et al.,


Excellent transcription! -- also really liked the extra effort you put in with the links.


Best Regards,


Cliff Thompson

    


  


      

  






  

      Sun, 07/13/2008 - 20:54 — 94520
  
  
  
    
I wish there were more interviews like this one


    

      
It's utterly fascinating to listen to people with so much experience in our field and so much wisdom to share. Please, please, please try to find more people like Richard.

    


  


      

  






  

      Sun, 07/13/2008 - 21:45 — Markus
  
  
  
    
we'll try, priomised :-)


    

      
Markus

    


  


      

  






  

      Fri, 11/21/2008 - 21:00 — clifft135
  
  
  
    
Guy Steele & Richard Gabriel: 50 in 50


    

      
Video of a classic presentation by Guy Steele & Richard Gabriel: 50 in 50 at

http://blog.jaoo.dk/2008/11/21/art-and-code-obscure-or-beautiful-code/ -- located at bottom of the page.


This is reference either in this interview or the one with Guy Steele.


Best Regards,


Cliff Thompson

    


  


      

  





  

      Thu, 02/12/2009 - 18:12 — SimonHawkin
  
  
  
    
Thanks


    

      
Thank you very much. Insightful and inspirational!

    


  


      

  


          
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